When I'm not working, and when I'm not raising my children, I paint and watch television and listen to music. [Sexually], I've long had a fantasy-obsession with watching women wrestle. I collect videos and literature and write about it and think about it and talk about it and see it every chance I get. [But] in and of itself, it isn't sex for me--or for anyone else. It's not a substitute for [sex, nor] for a relationship. If anything, it enhances a relationship. The optimum for me would be to have a relationship with a woman who does it. I have found myself increasingly insisting that, at the very least, I be able to share and have [my partner] know about my interest and know that it's sexually stimulating for me. I have love-wrestled, so I have some interest in [doing it], but that [does] not come even remotely close to the interest in observing it.

For a long time, I was absolutely in the closet about it. The first person to know, concretely, was [my ex-wife]. I spilled the beans once because I couldn't restrain myself any more. I was living a dual life, in [a] closet [about] that particular corner of my sexuality. It had become too difficult; so I told her, and we talked about it briefly. She wanted to see a film to see what it was--and understood it, I think, [vaguely]. However, it wasn't something she expressed interest in doing or thinking about or talking about. Subsequent to that, in all the relationships I've had with any level of seriousness--anything that's gone beyond a couple of months, anyway--I've spoken to the woman extensively about it and have insisted that she see whatever videotape or material I think is appropriate. A lot of women don't understand what happens. They're used to seeing professional wrestling on TV. It's very difficult for them to grasp what actually happens. Once they [do], it's clearer.

I would characterize [my interest] as a difficult necessity. I initially [broach the subject] with some trepidation. In general, it turns out that trepidation's unfounded. What I have found is that, in general, they're very understanding. I've never even had a reaction of confusion. I think that you can tell almost anyone any truth about yourself--provided that you've been able to communicate the real truth about yourself. There's a lot more to me than this particular sexual turn-on. Women don't have to be afraid that I'm some violent human being who enjoys the idea of them being hurt without consent. I think they know that, and so the possibility of genuine shock wears off. I think that it fits in with the rest of what they know about me, in terms of personality. I'm fairly open. I'm also knowledgeable about [sexuality] to a rudimentary extent, but the rudiments of my knowledge far exceed those of the average person in this society. I think I communicate that. Also, I am drawn to people who are fairly adventurous--if not in practice, at least in fantasy. I think most people have pretty rich fantasy lives. The people I go out [with] tend to be women who have dealt with and enjoyed their fantasies on a much more conscious level than most other people. I'm attracted to more intelligent women--or, at the very least, more educated women. They try to be a bit more sophisticated about these issues.

Generally, I don't reveal [this] unless I think that the person [will] be a part of my life for a period of time. I'm certainly not ashamed of it, and I'm no longer reluctant to talk about it, but it requires a lot of explanation, and it is revelatory in some basic ways. I don't want to go to the trouble unless there are real benefits to it. The benefit to me is that the more I share of myself, the better the relationship is going to be.

For me, I think there's some deep-seated psychological thing that works itself out in the context of [a wrestling] scenario. Some shrink once said to me that she felt--it [may] sound [as if] I don't take this seriously [but] actually I think it was an incisive insight--that one of the two combatants was my mother and that the other one was me or my champion. There is this need for someone to vanquish the other. That's part of the fantasy: someone's got to win, and the champion beats my mother. I think that's part of it. The other part is that I have a great attraction to women's bodies, and [when] they are in the wrestling match, if it's properly done, they are in a physical configuration that's very exciting.

I like certain body types somewhat more than others, [but] I don't have a favorite. In female wrestling, there is a gamut of visuals. It's complex, because the [universe] of people who do it for real [may be] as different as everyone is different, but the women who are paid to do it are basically of three types: dancers, actresses, or body builders--body professionals. I look at tapes of all three and find I'm a glutton: I'll take it all. I have a very catholic approach to female physiology.

There are variations within each type [of wrestling], but the major set of activities is not very much different than what two males do in a collegiate wrestling match. It's based on headlocks, scissorsholds, and things like that. There is not a high degree of possibility of injury, and there's no attempt to [inflict] permanent injury. You can't--it's barbaric. It can get very competitive: a lot of strength, a lot of fast--and a lot of painful--moves are used. It hurts for someone to do a scissors on you. However, that is a function of how good the [wrestlers] are. When you have one person who's much better than the other, it doesn't get to that point, because [she] dominates from the first step. It literally is a sport.

A catfight is a form of wrestling in which the combatants are allowed to pull hair without yanking it out, which is pretty tough--there has to be [a] mutual understanding, and [they may also] grab breasts or buttocks,which is normally not done during freestyle wrestling. Sometimes they're allowed to slap. I have never seen a catfight go any further than that. [It's] controlled. You always have a third person [ who's an observer]--it's very dangerous to do with just two people. People who are knowledgeable never have private matches, unless they know the person very well.

There's [something] called the AmFem Directory, in which couples advertise for [private] matches [with] other couples; they get together for an evening, and the women wrestle or fight. In those kinds of matches, you often have different, more erotic variations. An erotic wrestling match [might] end in a face-sit. On tape, that means that you're sitting on someone else's face and smothering them--there's an implication of sexuality that is not really true. In real life, it is true: you're fighting for control of the loser. The [loser] does anything that the winner wants, and that's usually sexual. That doesn't happen all the time--not even the majority of times--but it happens, and it's set up beforehand. In a certain type of erotic wrestling--and this is particularly true of women who are just into the more erotic aspect of it--there's actually some kind of sexual manipulation during the match. They try to get each other to come by use of the fingers, knees, legs, rubbing, that type of thing. The woman who comes to orgasm first is the loser. In order to do this, you can't have very much clothing on. You can't lick them through a bikini bottom--well, you can, but it's much more difficult! So you have to get those clothes off somehow. That's also decided, usually before the couples get together.

[They negotiate]: "How will the winner be decided? Can the loser automatically demand a rematch? What is the involvement of the men?" In some cases, the loser [may have] to sexually please the winner's husband or boyfriend. All of those variations occur. That's where it's not the same as a collegiate match. However, it isn't the same as a war, either. This ain't Viet Nam! This is sexuality. [Personally], I take almost no active role, except sexually with one of the wrestlers, if I'm involved with her or if she wants it. I had a scene at a friend's house, here in New York City, in which the women were doing a fun-type catfight. But for some reason, they wanted a scenario of fighting over a man [and] the winner needed a sexual release of some kind. That was my role. I jumped at the opportunity! I want to underscore that this happens really rarely in my life.

There is a theory, held by people of all scales of intelligence--I being at the lower end of the scale--that we're all, to some extent, bisexual. So a lot of what happens when women wrestle each other [is that] it brings out either their bisexuality or lesbian sexual desire. There is also a whole [segment] of wrestlers who are lesbians, by lifestyle, by declaration. I know several [lesbian couples] who [wrestle at home] as a sexual pastime. Most male fans will tell you that a match between lesbians is probably one of the best matches that you can have, because, though this [is a flawed] generalization, lesbians [feel] much greater comfort [with] another female body--grabbing it and touching it, at least initially--than straight women. That's the hunch of lesbians I know: [lesbians] can grab with much more ease, much more enthusiasm.

Legitimization [of amateur wrestling] is a major trend. [Another] major development is the entry of bodybuilders. There's a woman on [the television show] "American Gladiators" who is a world-class bodybuilder [and] also an amateur wrestler. [Another] trend is much more nudity [in] high-quality wrestling. There was a time, not long ago, when the good wrestling was done with bathing suits, and the sexy stuff was done nude, and they had nothing to do with each other. That's no longer the case. Now you can buy videotapes with two naked women who put on a very good match.

I believe that there's a large [segment] of people involved in wrestling--men and women--who are doing it as a function of D&S. The sexual expression is often couched in D&S terms, but I think that the real issue remains the psychological question. There's a point in most of these matches at which one person totally caves in psychologically. Very often it can happen right at the beginning--they [may] go on for 15 minutes without a winner, but it's clear who will win, [or] it happens at the last minute. Usually, it happens two-thirds of the way [through and] there is a process of submission: one of the women simply stops fighting effectively. She has become passive--not what [D&S'ers] call submissive, but submissive in real terms. At that point, the winner literally can do whatever she wants with the loser. It strikes me that that's the point of consensual power exchange.

There is [also] an identifiable D&S circle within female wrestling. Certain punishments, certain kinds of S&M activity, even restraint, are used after the contest in some cases. I don't think this is [typical], but I know for a fact that it does occur and that when some women defeat an opponent, they like to restrain her in some way and spank or paddle her. [Still], a lot of people in female wrestling are not very open-minded. They say "Those B&D weirdos, keep them away from me!" There's a close-mindedness among people who are engaged in an activity that [others] would consider quite kinky in itself.